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3D Application Forums : Autodesk 3ds Max : Programme to simulate gear calculations?
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JamesAbell
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Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 16-Nov-2007 10:22 AM
Modified by JamesAbell On 16-Nov-2007  10:28 AM


Hello I think this has been asked before but  I am looking to simulate gearing calculations as well as instant gear creation with set teeth, hopefully within 3ds max,


does anyone know any new plugins or any cad applications where I could possible import to max?

Alternatively, I will try to set something up in Reactor, but it will take some working out.



elyptic
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176 Posts
RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 16-Nov-2007 5:10 PM
Modified by elyptic On 17-Nov-2007  11:49 AM

Have a look here first:

http://www.turbosquid.com/Forum/Index.cfm/stgAct/PostList/intThreadID/28226

EDIT: I don't know why TS mangles the URLs to itself like that, I edited it several times. Just copy the URL above, and paste in the browser address bar.
bhnh
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 16-Nov-2007 5:37 PM

Hi, James.  I don't if this recent Area thread would be of any help... Area thread: modeling bevel gears.  Here's a quick demo I put together on modeling a gear from a star shape... star shape for gear.  I'm not aware of any plugins that would figure this stuff out for you. 

I suspect this may be one of those cases where Max can't duplicate real-world physics, i.e. actually having one gear actuating a second one.  There are a number of places on the 'net that have gear ration converters, so you'd manually animate each gear, for instance gear A rotates 3 times for every 1 rotation of gear B.

JamesAbell
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 16-Nov-2007 7:21 PM

Elyptic that link doesnt seem to work.

bnhh, thanks for links. I am sure there is some way reactor can simulate gears, ie the push effect each time a tooth meshes with the other on the other gear. However, that will probably be too much work.

As you say doing it manual works and of course you can then speed up the entire gear train or slow it down.

I manually did it once, it was a bit laborious, I just thought it would be good if there was a good plugin etc.

Eddie T
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292 Posts
RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 17-Nov-2007 5:03 AM

That was pretty cool for the modeling part But I understand your question I had placed a similar thread some time ago I was still not able to figure it out for max but you need to visit the CAD thread it can be done in CAD or Inventor using constraints as for the modeling it is a bit more precise but it works. And then there is some script I found one day  for Maya "Gear Generator" Never tried it though I might try it this wekend and if it does work I will try to export it as an Obj and see if it could be imported but from previous experience you know there may be a chance that the formulary for Maya will not work or be either importable or exportable. I will let you know either way though.
bhnh
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 17-Nov-2007 3:23 PM
Modified by bhnh On 17-Nov-2007  3:24 PM

Here's a mini-tute on getting gears to move interactively... wiring gears for animation.  It does require a little math (!) which is explained in the tute.  Not as easy as clicking a couple of buttons, but a helluva lot better than trying to guess at multiple rotation speeds.
JamesAbell
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 17-Nov-2007 5:06 PM

Thanks for the link,

That is good, I think the maths involved is good for the brain rather than a more lazy point and click solution.

shame I cant seem to download it and back it up for later offline reference.




bhnh
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 17-Nov-2007 6:07 PM

If you e-mail me at bh at e-nimation dot com I'll FTP the tute files to you, James.
bhnh
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 18-Nov-2007 8:18 AM

If it's of any help, here's the text from the tute describing the math...

_______________________________________________________

SPACING THE TEETH

In order for gears to mesh properly, the spacing of the teeth on all of the gears has to be the same amount.  Here's how to compute that spacing.

The spacing, or width, of each tooth is equal to the inner circumference of the gear divided by the number of teeth.
          
                   spacing = inner circumference / tooth count

The equation to find a circumference is circumference = 2(PI x radius), where PI = 3.1416.  The inner radius of the star spline is 100, so...

                  circumference = 2(3.1416 x 100) = 628.32 

That makes the tooth spacing...

                  spacing = 628.32 / 20 = 31.4 units


The second gear has 12 teeth, each 31.4 units wide.  So multiply 31.4 by 12 to find what the inner circumference needs to be.

       inner circumference = 31.4 x 12 = 376.99 = 377 units

But we need to know the radius.  The equation for that is...
  
               radius = (circumference / PI) / 2

So the inner radius is (377 / 3.1416) / 2 = 60 units.     Recall that the outer radius of the first gear is 40 units more than the inner radius, so the outer radius of this gear will be 60 + 40 = 100 units.

_____________________________________________________

GEAR RATIOS

The gear ratio describes how much one meshed gear turns in relation to how much the gear it's meshed with turns.  The gear ratio is calculated by dividing one gear's circumference by the other gear's circumference.  If gear "A" is 10 units around and gear "B" is 5 units around, the gear ratio of A to B is 1:2, and the ration of B to A is 1:0.5.  Either way, gear "B" will make two turns for every one turn that gear "A" makes.

If you know the number of teeth on each gear, finding the gear ratio is just as simple; divide the number of teeth on one gear by the number of teeth on the other gear.

gear ratio = tooth count "A" / tooth count "B"

In this demonstration, gear1 has 20 teeth and gear2 has 12 teeth.  The ratio of gear1 to gear2 is 20 divided by 12, or 1:1.6666666... on forever.  We could round this off to 1:1.67, but every time the gears rotated there would be a slight error that would start to add up over time.

Let's try it in the other direction.  The ratio of gear2 to gear1 is 12 divided by 20, or 1:0.6.  This is much better.  It means that for every full revolution that gear2 (the smaller gear) makes, gear1 (the larger gear) will make 0.6 of a revolution. 

 

JamesAbell
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 18-Nov-2007 11:26 AM

Many thanks! I was just going to e mail you , this is more than enough.

There were some gear programmes I found, none really that wonderous and this way as said exercises the grey cell.




bhnh
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 18-Nov-2007 2:36 PM
Modified by bhnh On 18-Nov-2007  2:36 PM

Happy to oblige.  It's nice to run into another ideator.  If you're in need of any other conversion equations, like where the only known value is the gear ratio, give a holler.
Caprier
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573 Posts
RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 19-Nov-2007 5:26 AM

Depending on the accuracy you want, be aware that the tooth profile is important too. Teeth too well adjusted would either lock or break.

FOR NERDS ONLY: There's this document I downloaded a while ago. I lost the link, so I uploaded it here. It can tell you everything there is to know about gears - or give you a tremendous headache. Either way.

For the pic below, I stole the idea from a thread at the Area (where finally you can see bhnh's avatar in motion! Pretty cool!)

Eddie T
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292 Posts
RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 19-Nov-2007 8:08 AM


Hey B, Let me start off by wishing every one a very good Thanksgiving if I do not speak to you before the Holiday.

I tried to save your email address in my address book for future ref but it will not let me save it because of its format. So if you would could you send me the formulary docs you were going to send James. Thanks particleone@hotmail.com just put what its about in the subject





bhnh
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 19-Nov-2007 9:06 AM

Just sent you a link for a download, Eddie.  Happy Turkeyday to you, as well!

Cap, do you have the same username over at the Area?  I wouldn't want to be gossiping about you without realizing it was you I was gossiping to.  ;-D

 

Caprier
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 19-Nov-2007 9:33 AM

Hi Bruce. yes, I have the same user name. Only one old post though...
bhnh
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 19-Nov-2007 9:35 AM

I'll keep an eye out, Cap.

Eddie, the e-mail address you posted keeps bouncing messages.  "Mailbox unavailable".


Caprier
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 19-Nov-2007 9:38 AM
Modified by Caprier On 19-Nov-2007  9:39 AM

Sorry. Double post...

Andy Rak
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 19-Nov-2007 12:40 PM

If you do it manually you can always adjust the speed by using the Wiring capability and add an onscreen maniuplator helper to wire the rotation parameter to (with an expression)... that way the manipulator can act as a rotation mulitplier which is animateable...
bhnh
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 19-Nov-2007 1:19 PM

Cool idea, Andy.

Eddie T
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 20-Nov-2007 7:44 AM

No for some reason it would not take it
mutantcel
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 21-Nov-2007 9:46 AM

once again bhnh, you amaze me with your knowledge of Max.  Your mesh modeling for the gears in your tutorial was inspiring.
bhnh
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RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 21-Nov-2007 11:05 AM

Many thanks, MC.  It's a matter of Occam's Razor - the simplest solution is the best one.  Either that, or the fact that I'm hopelessly lazy. \;-J
Eddie T
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292 Posts
RE: Programme to simulate gear calculations?
Posted 22-Nov-2007 3:30 AM

Hey B try image12@verizon.net
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